ysabetwordsmith: Cartoon of me in Wordsmith persona (Default)
[personal profile] ysabetwordsmith
This story belongs to the series Love Is For Children which includes "Love Is for Children," "Hairpins," "Blended," "Am I Not," "Eggshells," "Dolls and Guys,""Saudades," "Querencia," "Turnabout Is Fair Play," "Touching Moments," "Splash," "Coming Around," "Birthday Girl," "No Winter Lasts Forever," "Hide and Seek," "Kernel Error," "Happy Hour," "Green Eggs and Hulk,""kintsukuroi," "Little and Broken, but Still Good," "Up the Water Spout," "The Life of the Dead," and "Anahata."

Fandom: The Avengers
Characters: Phil Coulson, Steve Rogers, Bucky Barnes, Natasha Romanova, Clint Barton, Bruce Banner, JARVIS, Tony Stark.
Medium: Fiction
Warnings: Public surveillance (consensual on the part of the main characters). Mention of past trauma with lingering symptoms of PTSD. Current environment is safe. Shyness. Nausea. Imposter syndrome. Boundary issues.  Negative coping skills.
Summary: Steve coaxes Bruce and Bucky to go out running with him. Later on, there is Game Night.
Notes: Hurt/comfort. Family. Fluff and angst. Coping skills. Exercise. Healthy touch. Asking for help and getting it. Hope. Tony takes things apart. Dietary concerns and solutions. Positive coping skills. Nonsexual ageplay. Nonsexual intimacy. Caregiving. Competence. Toys and games. Gentleness. Trust. #coulsonlives

Begin with Part 1, Part 2, Part 3.  Skip to Part 6, Part 7Part 8Part 9.


Coming in from the Cold
Saturday: Building Towers



Phil turned to Tony's project on coping skills. The problem there was twofold: when upset, Tony felt uncomfortable around other people but tended to spiral out of control if left alone. That left him with no real "safe" option. Tony needs to work on both ends of that spectrum, learning to find comfort in company and discovering ways of soothing himself, Phil mused. According to the records, Tony had blazed through self-help articles and tip sheets, then psych journal articles, and finally a half-dozen college textbooks.

There were completed worksheets in the project folder. Some of them Phil could view, while others lay behind a privacy lock. Tony had finished worksheets sorting stressors by source and intensity, followed by one on signs of stress. Then he had stalled out partway through mapping arousal curves and strategies. The reading log indicated that Tony at least looked at lists of coping skills, and a few exercises, but his coverage of that area was patchy compared to other subtopics.

Tony knows exactly what bothers him and how much, but not what to do about it, Phil thought. That matches my observations. Maybe I can help him get unstuck.

"JARVIS, how busy is Tony right now?" Phil asked.

"Sir is in his lab, stress-testing various components for Bucky's replacement arm," JARVIS replied. Pause. "He is willing to take a break if you need him."

"Yes, please, invite him to join me after he reaches a good stopping place," Phil said.

"Done," JARVIS said.

Phil continued browsing Tony's folder. Some of the entries were humorous. A flow chart of coping skills vs. urges had been collaged into a diagram of Tony's more colorful escapades. Evidently he showed that one to Rhodey, who had added a few tart comments of his own. Two different bingo cards had been attempted. On the one with a mix of positive and negative behaviors, Tony had bingoed down the column of red flags. On the all-positive one, he had several random squares but nothing close to completion.

"I like this idea," Phil announced. "JARVIS, compile a nice long list of healthy techniques and randomize those onto some bingo cards. Add that to the shared games archive. Send an announcement to the whole team. Anyone who wants to play can claim a card. Are you willing to double-check the scoring? You see pretty much everything in the tower."

"Yes, of course," JARVIS replied. "Are we scoring for attempting a technique or actually succeeding with it?"

"Attempting, as long as they make an honest effort," Phil said. "I want to encourage people to try new approaches so that they can learn what works for them and what doesn't."

"Will there be prizes to encourage participation?" JARVIS asked.

"Pull up the reward list," Phil said. He had compiled things that people enjoyed which he could hand out as perks for accomplishments. It included options like pick which movie to watch together, skip a noncritical meeting, someone else does a chore for you, and choose a recipe for game night. Phil checked off an assortment of entries. "Completing a bingo earns the winner's choice of these."

"Noted and logged," JARVIS said.

Just then Tony arrived, looking energetic but a little frazzled. "Thanks for the excuse to do something else," he said. "I'm running into material problems where stuff that works for everyday use isn't durable enough for combat or mechanical work, but stuff that can stand up to hard use is clunky, heavy, or ugly. I may have to give up on versatility and make two specialized arms."

"It sounds like you need to discuss that with Bucky," Phil said. "He didn't get to pick the one he's wearing now, and that bothers him."

"Yeah, only Bucky's tolerance for talking about his gear isn't much higher than mine for talking about Howard," Tony said with a grimace. "He can go for a few minutes and then his mood usually tanks out. Plus he hardly knows what the options are so I have to explain from scratch. That undercuts my ability to customize according to his needs."

"I'm confident that the two of you can work it out," Phil said.

"We'll manage. So, you wanted to see me about something?" Tony said.

"Yes, I've been reading some mental maintenance materials," Phil said. He turned off the big screen on his desk and picked up his Starkpad. Then he moved to the couch. "You've made good progress on yours, though you seem to have gotten stuck recently."

"Is this where you tell me to go see a real shrink?" Tony guessed. He settled next to Phil, close enough to touch but not touching yet.

"Only if you feel like that would help. Speaking of which, Tony, Dr. Samson has started a Mad Science Torture support group at SHIELD," said Phil.

"And this is relevant to me exactly how?" Tony said, frowning. "Bucky and Natasha, sure, maybe Bruce. My experiences with torture have been perfectly plebian. Fist in face, waterboarding, a little electrical play, nothing to write home about."

"I've read the reports about what happened with Yinsen," Phil said quietly. "Start with the fact that you were awake at least part of the time he was digging shrapnel out of your chest and hooking you up to a car battery."

Tony looked away. "Yeah, no, that doesn't count," he said. "What the Ten Rings did to us, that was torture. Yinsen was just ... short on supplies, and not too fond of the name Stark, neither of which I can blame him for. So you don't talk about him like that, and fuck, I don't want to talk about Afghanistan at all. Much less with a bunch of spies I don't even know."

"All right, Tony, it's your call. I just wanted you to know there are options opening up, and this seemed like a possible match for your experiences," Phil said. "It's not like you could take some of your concerns to an ordinary counselor."

"Talk about collateral damage," Tony said darkly. "Normal people do not need to hear shit like this. It's bad enough for soldiers who come home with PTSD and try taking it to a civilian. One of Rhodey's friends made a shrink cry that way. Superhero problems? Don't even go there." He crossed his arms.

"Okay," Phil said. "Shall we look over your work instead? You really got a lot done. I'm impressed."

"What, with how fucked up I am?" Tony said.

"No, with the precision of your self-knowledge," Phil said. "I'm more used to working with people who can't see themselves this clearly."

"So I know what bugs the crap out of me. I don't see how that's helpful," Tony said.

"Suppose a car won't start. What do you do first?" Phil said.

"Pop the hood and figure out why not," Tony said, uncrossing his arms to mime poking at an engine. Then he gave a thoughtful hum. "Oh, I get it. The first step to solving any problem is to find out what the problem is."

"Exactly," Phil said. "So now we know some things that bother you, which ones have worse impact, and the signs of stress you might show. Next we can think about what might help."

"Yeah, that's where I got stuck. Most of the so-called 'coping skills' just sound stupid. I mean, candlemaking? Seriously, is this a thing?" Tony said.

"Some people find crafts relaxing," Phil said. "You build machines. They might sew or paint or, yes, make candles. Here, take this list and sort the suggestions into Stupid and Not So Stupid."

Tony laughed. "Really? Those are the categories?"

"I think they might work for you. Just give it a try," Phil said. He passed Tony his Starkpad.

Tony set to the task with a flick of his fingers. It only took him a few minutes to sort through the list. "Done. Now what?" he said.

"Take the Stupid list and mark things you absolutely won't try," Phil said.

Tony smiled as he crossed off options with vigorous strokes. Phil wasn't surprised to see Talk to strangers, Spirituality, Writing poetry, Making candles, and Oreos get the axe. "Usually people don't let me do this," Tony said.

"You're allowed to say no. Only you can determine what techniques make you feel better, or don't do anything, or make you feel worse. The list of possible options is huge; it makes sense to start by whittling down the choices to a more manageable subset," Phil said.

"Like ruling out unlikely explanations of malfunction because they don't quite fit the signs," Tony said. Intrigued, he leaned a little closer to Phil, the Starkpad balanced on his knees.

"Yes, exactly," said Phil. "Now, I'm going to start by picking one item from the Not So Stupid list. Where it says 'Tell a friend,' how do you feel about telling a teammate when you're upset about something?"

"It's usually obvious."

"Often, though not always. It would help for us to know how you feel and why," Phil said.

"Sometimes it's ... not so clear," Tony admitted. "Other times I can't even talk, it's all I can do to walk out of the room without hitting someone or throwing things." His thumbnail traced along the almost invisible seam of the Starkpad.

That explains why Tony described himself as a huge fan of the way Bruce loses control and turns into a giant green ragemonster, Phil realized. Aloud he said, "It doesn't have to be fancy. 'I'm upset.' 'I need some space.' Even that much would help."

"You'd really let me go off alone?" Tony cast a sidelong glance at Phil.

"Yes, as long as you don't seem like a danger to yourself or anyone else. It's okay to feel overwhelmed and want to get away from it all for a while," Phil said. He tapped the frame of the Starkpad. "Part of the point to this project is to find ways you can calm yourself when you feel bad. The other part is to explore how other people might be able to help you feel better."

"I guess," Tony said.

Phil reached over and changed the display on the Starkpad, bringing up the Not So Stupid list. "Look at these and see if any of them sound like things you already enjoy or might consider trying. Aim for at least one you could do alone and one you could do in company."

Tony's progress through this list took much longer. He picked out Laughter and Cooking fairly soon. More slowly, he added Hot bath and Curling up with a good book. He hesitated over Negative to positive self-talk.

"Go ahead and tick that one if you're considering it," Phil said. "Remember, this is just a set of things to explore. You don't have to keep anything that doesn't work for you."

"Test to destruction is okay?" Tony said, looking up from the screen.

"If a coping skill falls apart during the test phase, then it's no use to you. Cross off anything that does that. Then you can try something different," Phil said. He wondered who wasn't letting Tony say no when he needed to. That couldn't be helping Tony's awareness of boundaries or his work-life balance.

"Then yeah, I'll think about it," Tony said. He ticked the box.

"Last step with this part of the project: pick one of your trial skills and plan to do an exercise in it some time this week. There are instructions for learning most of these things so you don't have to guess," Phil said.

"I already know how to do four of them. Well, okay, cooking is still in the acquisition phase, but I don't think it counts as new," Tony said.

"That leaves self-talk or talking with a friend," Phil said. "Why don't you browse some exercises for both, and see if anything piques your interest. Take your time thinking it over."

"Okay," Tony said without enthusiasm. "I just don't know if this will really help. I still don't feel like talking to anyone when I'm upset."

* * *

Notes:

Emotional overload requires good coping techniques. Feeling overwhelmed by emotions may indicate a need for help. Tony doesn't deal well with intense feelings or talking about them. Learn about emotional regulation. Here are some ways to cope with strong emotions and to build emotional resilience.

Coping skills help with diverse challenges such as stress, anger, depression, and anxiety. Groups can use games and activities to deal with issues. Individuals use different private methods. Teaching these skills will help people handle upsets better. There are special methods for PTSD. A self-care emergency kit may help with a variety of complaints.

These are some of the resources Tony is browsing: categories of coping skills, radical acceptance, recovery coping skills, coping for depression, coping at work, behavioral fitness tips, cognitive coping skills, staying present, changing emotions, 99 coping skills, safe coping skills, avoiding self-destructive behavior, stress relief, guided imagery, caregiver-guided skills, distress tolerance activities, coping skills for substance abuse, and managing emotions.

Use worksheets to identify sources of stress, map arousal curves, measure the amount of upset, and describe intensity of reactions.

Coping skills can also generate humor. See the coping skills flow chart, positive coping skills bingo, positive and negative bingo, and rewards. Want your own bingo card? This bingo card generator has a list of positive coping techniques, plus you can fill in your own topics to use.

Tony and Phil are talking about unpleasant events from Iron Man 1.

(Some of these links are gross.)
Torture has complex definitions but basically entails hurting someone for personal gain. Lasting effects can include hypersensitivity to pain, but conversely, some people experience emotional numbing or learned helplessness that reduce their ability to identify or avoid pain. This makes recovery a long, difficult process. Phil and Tony also argue over whether Yinsen's actions qualify as medical torture or patient abuse, or are incidental trauma caused by wretched circumstances outside the doctor's control. While that doesn't change the events or their negative impact on Tony, it does make a big difference in how he feels about what Yinsen did to him. Identifying and caring for torture survivors takes a lot of work. It may also help to use resources for more general emotional trauma, traumatic stress, and PTSD.

I have found various references to veterans having difficulty with civilian caregivers, including making the counselor cry, but it's not always easy to pin them down. The cultural differences alone complicate treatment. Vicarious trauma can lead to compassion fatigue. Strategies to reduce vicarious trauma don't always work. Caregivers should prepare carefully before helping someone with PTSD.

Work-life balance spans several key areas to ensure that both professional and personal needs get met. Follow the steps to improve your work-life balance.

Most people talk about consent and inability to give consent in sexual contexts, but it applies to nonsexual contexts as well. In canon, multiple people routinely violate Tony's physical, financial, and emotional boundaries. I doubt they're really doing better with sex. Also Tony frequently interacts with people when he is too drunk, exhausted, injured, or otherwise impaired to be thinking clearly and legally capable of consent to anything. Unsurprisingly this leads to a lot of very bad outcomes. Know how to say no without feeling guilty, in different ways based on your reasoning.

Personal boundaries come in various types, and you can see that Tony's material boundaries are often violated. Signs of unhealthy boundaries appear throughout canon. Well, how the hell would he learn healthy boundaries when people keep doing that? Learn how to set healthy boundaries and deal with violations.


[To be continued in Part 5 ...]

(no subject)

Date: 2015-05-27 04:30 am (UTC)
thnidu: warm red heart on orange streaked background (heart)
From: [personal profile] thnidu
This is such good stuff that Phil is working with, organizing, offering to Tony. I don't know about Φιλἰππος, but Φἰλιος he certainly is.

(no subject)

Date: 2015-05-27 09:10 pm (UTC)
zeeth_kyrah: A glowing white and blue anthropomorphic horse stands before a pink and blue sky. (Default)
From: [personal profile] zeeth_kyrah
I don't read Greek letters, but people use it around me just often enough to make at least the phonetics useful. Would you be willing to add a parenthetical Greek-to-English transliteration to your Greek words now and then? That would be very helpful for people who'd like to learn more about the concepts you're referencing.

Re: Hmm...

Date: 2015-05-27 09:37 pm (UTC)
zeeth_kyrah: A glowing white and blue anthropomorphic horse stands before a pink and blue sky. (Default)
From: [personal profile] zeeth_kyrah
Thank you, it's much clearer now!

Re: Hmm...

Date: 2015-05-28 02:31 am (UTC)
thnidu: It actually says MUPHRY'S LAW and the bottom of the word LAW is clipped off (Murphy's Law)
From: [personal profile] thnidu
Whoops, I'm sorry! Our Hostess has it perfectly right. I made the mistake of replying just to her, with her linguistic interests and knowledge, without considering other readers. I'll try to remember your perfectly sensible request in future.

Re: Hmm...

Date: 2015-05-28 02:45 am (UTC)
thnidu: my familiar. "Beanie Baby" -type dragon, red with white wings (Default)
From: [personal profile] thnidu

Well, I know you know bits and pieces and scraps of a good # of languages, and more than that of some; and that you are not ignorant of Sprachwissenschaft (oop, German for "linguistics").

Re: Hmm...

Date: 2015-05-28 02:59 am (UTC)
thnidu: my familiar. "Beanie Baby" -type dragon, red with white wings (Default)
From: [personal profile] thnidu
Oh yeah. You've got some bumps (in the quasi-phrenological sense) that I don't, and maybe vice versa as well.

• Egyptian heiroglyphs
→ hieroglyphs
> It'll help if you remember hierarchy, at least if you pronounce it in 4 syllables.

Re: Hmm...

Date: 2015-05-28 03:44 am (UTC)
thnidu: Bin There Dun That (Bin There Dun That)
From: [personal profile] thnidu
Oh yaaa...

Re: Hmm...

Date: 2017-11-25 09:39 pm (UTC)
pinkrangerv: White Hispanic female, with brown hair, light skin, and green eyes, against a background of blue arcane symbols (Default)
From: [personal profile] pinkrangerv
Bahahahaa, I feel you. 'It's impossible to hypnotize yourself.' 'Researchers doubt whether lucid dreaming exists.' 'No one can dream things they haven't already seen'. And I'm just over here going 'uh-huuuunh...'...:p

(no subject)

Date: 2015-05-27 04:54 am (UTC)
dru_evilista: A purple swirl (Purple Swirl)
From: [personal profile] dru_evilista
I love how Tony takes to this like he takes to anything he wants to learn: mainline everything he can get his hands on from self help sites, to collage text books. And turning it into a game even! And Phil making it a team wide thing. I also love Phil translating things into terms Tony's fluent in, like car repair. Things can make no sense to you, then something says something that helps you just click and go "OH! ok I get it now!" thinking about it in terms you know. Love Phil helping him work down the list of things that might help him, giveing him options but LETTING him say no to things he just doesn't want to do. That's something Tony's never really had. Parents, Obie, the military, even Pepper. A long list of people expecting Tony to do as they say, be want they want, do what they want, and getting pissed of he tries to say no or set limits for himself and his wants.

(no subject)

Date: 2015-05-27 09:11 pm (UTC)
zeeth_kyrah: A glowing white and blue anthropomorphic horse stands before a pink and blue sky. (Default)
From: [personal profile] zeeth_kyrah
I also love Phil translating things into terms Tony's fluent in, like car repair.

The power of metaphor is enormous in helping clarify ideas between different people. As well as being useful in spellwork and personal psychology! One way to create positive self-talk is to change the metaphor you use to refer to something. :)

Re: Yes...

Date: 2015-05-31 02:46 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I was wondering if you would delve more in-depth into the "how people use Tony" topic. It's one thing for the team to see the RESULTS of how people have always treated Tony, and another to see it first hand. Pepper and Rhodey have treated Tony less than gently many times, under the guise of "helping him" be who they thought he should be.

In your current stories, how much interaction have people had with Pepper and Rhodey? You made some references in this story (the tart comments from Rhodey part and Phil wondering who wasn't allowing Tony to say no). Just wondering if anyone has put it together yet that two of Tony's closest friends may not be treating him as well as he should be treated. I don't think they realize that they aren't treating Tony gently (as at least in the MCU verse they do seem to truly care for Tony), I just don't think they realize their methods are doing more harm than good.

GS

Oh...

Date: 2015-05-27 04:56 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tadpoleacorn
You know... The way you portray Tony here is not that different than how I experience things sometimes. I can frequently identify what my issues are or unhealthy behaviors I engage in, but figuring out coping skills has been something that has puzzled me. Thank you for writing this. I think... I may come back to it several times.

Re: Oh...

Date: 2015-05-28 05:26 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tadpoleacorn
Thank you. I'm... working on getting support. My social skills are inadequate and I haven't really had the energy to sink into trying to improve them, so everything has sort of been skeleton crew for a while...

I've been trying to do the warning sign part of it. My biggest problem has actually been the sheer number of people who don't understand the phrases "I can't..." or "I need..." don't mean "I don't want..." or "I want..." People tend to accidentally bulldozer me due to this misunderstanding, which can be unfortunate for my attempts to avoid larger issues.

Re: Oh...

Date: 2015-05-28 06:07 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tadpoleacorn
Aah. Thank you.

(no subject)

Date: 2015-05-27 06:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aleksrothis.livejournal.com
I don't think I've ever commented here before but just wanted to say how glad I am that you're continuing this series. I tend to drop in and out of fandoms so shorter stories suit my reading style better too.

Not only do I love these stories, I often find your end notes really helpful

(no subject)

Date: 2015-05-27 08:08 pm (UTC)
redsixwing: A red knotwork emblem. (Default)
From: [personal profile] redsixwing
Hee! "Stupid" and "Less Stupid" are categories that would've worked well with a younger version of me.

The boundary issues, they burn.

Thank you, thank you, for the list of links at the bottom. I've passed some of them along to an acquaintance elseweb who needed a hand wrangling anxiety today.

Re: Yes...

Date: 2015-07-06 08:28 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tresta

>>> The boundary issues, they burn. <<<

>>Also true. That's a problem for most of the Avengers, but especially Tony and Bruce-and-Hulk where nobody listens to their needs or choices. They're just there for people to use. <<

And I think its important to note that it isn't Tony or Bruce's fault. The problem isn't that they don't stand up for themselves. If Bruce did happen to stand up for himself, would people care? Would they listen ? Ditto Tony.

Bruce may not stand up for himself much of the time but he's LEARNED not to. He's learned that it does not help him and likely hurts him more. Tony.... may stand up sometimes and other times not? I'm not sure. He may not have the best grasp of boundaries, but he's never been allowed to have any so how could he?

For boundaries to work, the OTHER PERSON/PEOPLE has/have to respect the boundaries you put up. You can be clear about your needs but if people don't care to hear that they'll just trample or shred you. It is always horrible, and even more so if it's people you CAN'T get away from. Both Tony and Bruce-Hulk have been abused this way. Bruce and Hulk had their father, then later General Ross, and probably many others I can't recall right now. Tony had Obie (and possibly even Howard. (I really doubt Howard paid any attention to statements from Tony about his needs or desires). Then came Pepper and Rhoadey who do actually care about Tony but violate his boundaries just as horribly as Howard and Obie did. And all of these people are people Tony can't just sever his relationship with for a variety of reasons. Tony's stuck. Bruce and Hulk were stuck.

I am sure that Tony and Bruce-Hulk were abused and violated by many others I am not naming. But I am particularly concerned with how many members of Tony and Bruce-Hulk's own families, born and made (Obie was family to Tony and had great influence on him) violated them.

It hurts so much to read it, and hurts even more when it's laid out as you have done here. I'll just say, it is painfully familiar. Or familial, if you know what I mean. I know how it feels to be treated more as property than a person.
Edited (Feeling a little insecure about this comment ) Date: 2015-07-06 08:33 am (UTC)

Re: Yes...

Date: 2015-07-07 08:08 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tresta
Awww thank you. The hugs are great, I needed the hugs, I hardly know hat to say but I appreciate you very much.

(no subject)

Date: 2015-06-07 05:40 am (UTC)
mdlbear: blue fractal bear with text "since 2002" (Default)
From: [personal profile] mdlbear
Really good set of links to coping tools -- I'll have to spend some time with those. Thanks.

(no subject)

Date: 2015-07-13 12:02 am (UTC)
yamx: (Default)
From: [personal profile] yamx
I love how Phil coaches Tony through this by building everything around Tony's own inclinations--from the categories "stupid" and "not so stupid," which really must jive with Tony's worldview, to letting him use engineering terminology ("testing to destruction") and reaffirming several times that he doesn't have to do/keep doing anything that's not working.

It's very different from the "here is how one should act" approach "helpful" people so often take. You can tell Tony's not at all used to it.

(no subject)

Date: 2017-06-25 05:00 am (UTC)
pinkrangerv: White Hispanic female, with brown hair, light skin, and green eyes, against a background of blue arcane symbols (Default)
From: [personal profile] pinkrangerv
I wonder if part of Tony's boundary problems come from his unique situation? For example, when Rhodey and Pepper tell Tony things like 'no, don't get drunk' or 'no, you have to go to the board meeting', they don't know enough about what they're doing to explain WHY, because they're not professionals, they're just random people who get it close enough to right so Tony can latch on and get something. So what Tony hears is 'sometimes violating my boundaries is Good and supported by society; sometimes it's Bad and not, and I don't know why'.

Profile

ysabetwordsmith: Cartoon of me in Wordsmith persona (Default)
ysabetwordsmith

June 2025

S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 1314
15161718192021
22232425262728
2930     

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags
OSZAR »