Poem: "Taarradhin"
Feb. 10th, 2023 07:10 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ysabetwordsmithThis poem came out of the February 7, 2023 Poetry Fishbowl. It was inspired by prompts from ng_moonmoth and see_also_friend. It also fills the "Erythrite - Perception & Perspective" square in my 2-1-23 card for the Valentines Bingo fest. This poem has been sponsored by ng_moonmoth. It belongs to the Rutledge thread of the Polychrome Heroics series.
"Taarradhin"
[Monday, January 26, 2015]
Oscar had invited Labib
over to his cabin to work on
stuff for the business incubator,
because it had a big stone fireplace
to keep the living room warm and
they could watch deer playing
on the frozen pond or scrounging
for corn under the birdfeeders.
They spent the morning going over
new members and checking for
possible mentors to go with
the ones who wanted some.
More and more people wanted
to join the business incubator,
which was great, but also busy.
That meant more need for tools
and supplies, too, thus juggling
the budget to cover those.
Labib was really good with
numbers, which Oscar wasn't;
but Oscar knew the locals,
which Labib didn't; and
they made a great team.
When noon rolled around,
Oscar stretched and said,
"I'm getting hungry for lunch.
How about sandwiches? I
could do up some egg salad
or grilled cheese if you like,
and there's canned soup."
"Perhaps I'll have one of
those oranges I saw in
a bowl earlier," Labib said.
Oscar frowned at that.
There it was again.
Labib never seemed
to take food that Oscar
had actually cooked here.
He would accept fruits
or vegetables if they
were whole and could
be washed or peeled
before eating them.
He would eat anything
out of a sealed container
that had a halal label, cold.
But he would not accept
an offer of a hot sandwich
or a bowl of soup or anything
cooked in Oscar's kitchen.
His wife and kids took
their cues from Labib.
Oscar wasn't quite sure
whether it was him or
the kitchen that was
causing the problem.
Labib hadn't hesitated
to eat food that Oscar
had made with the family
in their own kitchen, though,
so probably it was the kitchen.
"You want to tell me what I'm
doing wrong here?" Oscar asked.
Labib sighed. "Technically, nothing,"
he said. "It is permissible to eat from
a kitchen which is not halal, so long
as the food itself is halal and utensils
have been cleaned. It is merely ..."
He grimaced. "... unappetizing."
Oscar remembered the time
one of his cousins had tried
cooking roadkill in the kitchen.
He hadn't wanted to eat out of
there, either, even after it'd been
scrubbed with oven cleaner by
his cousin under the hawk-eye
of their exasperated grandmother.
It had been that or go hungry,
though, so eventually he'd eaten
what he was served and tried
to forget about the roadkill.
"Okay, I get that," said Oscar.
"Eating out of a not-halal kitchen
is gross to you. Can I fix that?"
"You don't need to," Labib said.
"I get plenty of food now, so
a simple snack is plenty."
Oscar tried to hide his wince.
"Yeah, no, that makes me feel
like the worst host ever," he said.
"I want to be able to toast a sandwich
or make soup without freaking you out.
Is there anything we can do about it?"
Labib looked conflicted, which was
really not what Oscar wanted, he
didn't want to be That Guy, but he also
didn't want to eat a hot sandwich
in front of a friend who didn't
feel like sharing the food.
"When we moved in, we
cleaned the kitchen very well,
and now it is halal," said Labib.
"Here it is ... not so simple."
Oscar looked around at
his cramped kitchen.
It was a kitchen only by
virtue of full-sized appliances,
with a dining table and chairs
squeezed into the far side,
not because it was actually
bigger than a kitchenette.
"Okay, well ... I've seen
you eat out, and not just at
Kardal's truck," said Oscar.
"So what's different there?"
Labib brightened. "Places
that sell halal food have
a separate station to make it."
"So like they do for allergies?"
Oscar said thoughtfully. He
looked at his kitchen again.
There was that bit of counter
at the end which he hardly used.
"Maybe we could do that here."
"Is there room?" Labib said,
frowning. "This place is so small."
Oscar shrugged. "It's just me here
most of the time, not like I live with
a family," he said. "You're my friend,
you bring your family over here too,
and I'd like to be able to feed you."
"When we came to Family Business Rest,
the kitchens were cleaned, but there were
also these ..." Labib made a pot shape
with his hands. "... that were new."
"Oh yeah, the crockpots," said Oscar.
"I remember Gideon doing something
with those and stuff like toasters,
skillets, other countertop appliances."
"Perhaps something like that, then,
which would not take up too much
of your space," Labib suggested.
"Yeah, let me check out the store
where the local restaurants and
bed-and-breakfasts buy stuff,"
Oscar said as he reached for
his tablet computer. "They've
got things at lower prices there."
He vaguely remembered
having seen things designed
for apartment kitchenettes that
mashed together three or four
different appliances into one.
The bed-and-breakfast owners
liked such things because those
could be put in a suite for guests
who preferred to fix their own food,
without needing a whole kitchen.
Sure enough, Oscar quickly found
a rice cooker that would also sauté,
steam, slow cook, or keep food warm.
It came in a rainbow of colors, too.
"Hey, Labib," he said, turning
his tablet around. "My appliances
and other things are mostly white.
Do you want yours a different color
so we can tell them apart easily?
There's a green on here, not like
Muslim green, but at least not white."
"That will work," Labib said. "At least
let me buy the equipment, you are
doing enough just to share your home."
"Nah, don't worry about it," Oscar said.
"We're near enough to family, you've
had me over to your place plenty."
"Akhi," Labib said fondly, smiling
at him. "My friend, my brother.
Perhaps we could share the cost?"
Oscar looked at the catalog.
"There's plenty of stuff here."
In addition to the slow cooker,
which they definitely wanted
to make soup, there was also
a breakfast station that included
a toaster oven, a griddle pan,
and a coffee machine.
Labib found a set of
bakeware to match
the breakfast station,
then various utensils.
Oscar spotted a knife block
with knives, and a cutting board.
Labib had dishware and silverware,
along with a stack of mixing bowls.
That was enough to cook with,
at least for making basic things
or heating up something premade.
Oscar put in the order and let
Labib pay for half of it. That
was fair, splitting the bill.
Then Oscar got up to wipe
the countertop clean.
He checked inside of
the cabinets over and
under the counter there.
They didn't have a lot
in them since he had
only himself to cook for
most of the time; he didn't
need much equipment for it.
"Why are you emptying
the cabinets?" Labib asked.
"So you can put your gear in there
when you're not using it," Oscar said.
"Might as well add the halal food too."
He'd been storing a few things like
snacks on one shelf, but now it made
more sense to put all that together.
It wasn't that big a deal, really.
Was it? Oscar didn't think so.
The first time Labib had wanted
to do the wudu thing here, Oscar
had sent him upstairs to use
the common bathroom, since
the powder room down here
was so tiny that Oscar was
afraid Labib would've broken
his neck trying to do it in there.
This wasn't that different, just
buying a few extra kitchen bits
and letting Labib borrow a part
of the countertop that Oscar
had hardly ever used anyway.
Oscar bundled the last few items
into one hand and waved the other
at the counter. "It's all yours."
Labib smiled. "Taarradhin,"
he said. "A compromise that
makes everyone happy."
"It's just perception and
perspective," Oscar said.
"I noticed that you weren't
keen about the kitchen, and
all I had to do was think
my way around to how you
saw it to figure out a solution."
He pushed the loose items
into a cabinet, then spotted
something he'd bought earlier.
"Oh hey," Oscar said happily.
"These are halal, and they heat
right in the pouch. Is that okay?"
He'd gotten a variety pack of
four different flavors, Indian
something-or-other, because
they sounded interesting and
had a halal label on them.
There were rice pouches,
too, from a different company.
Labib was maybe rubbing off
on him a bit, when it came
to trying different foods.
The older man leaned over
to look at the labels, then
nodded. "Chickpea masala."
"Yeah, we can split that one,"
Oscar said. "Each pouch
has two servings in it."
He put a pouch of rice
and a pouch of chickpeas
into the microwave oven,
and then turned it on.
While those heated,
Oscar washed bowls
and spoons the way
that he'd seen folks from
the Triton Teen Center do it.
Maybe that would help Labib
relax about the food issues.
It seemed to work, because
when the timer went off, Labib
helped Oscar to distribute
the food into their bowls.
They sat down at
the small table to eat.
Labib kept looking at
Oscar and smiling a bit.
The chickpea stuff was ...
actually pretty good, if not
quite as good as Kardal's food.
Definitely worth keeping in
the pantry for his guests.
Oscar probably never
would have discovered
stuff like this if Labib
hadn't come in his life
and stirred everything up.
Sometimes that got confusing,
but Oscar wouldn't have
wanted to miss this.
It was like having
an older brother or
an uncle, and he had
family but not many of
them were still local.
Labib's company was
totally worth clearing out
a bit of kitchen space and
buying a few new things.
"What was it you said
earlier?" Oscar mused.
"Sounds like tar adding?"
"Taarradhin," Labib said.
"A compromise where
everyone feels they won."
"Yeah, that," said Oscar.
"I'm glad we worked it out."
Labib brushed his fingers
against Oscar's. "Me too."
* * *
Notes:
This poem is long, so its notes appear separately.
ng_moonmoth and see_also_friend. It also fills the "Erythrite - Perception & Perspective" square in my 2-1-23 card for the Valentines Bingo fest. This poem has been sponsored by ng_moonmoth. It belongs to the Rutledge thread of the Polychrome Heroics series."Taarradhin"
[Monday, January 26, 2015]
Oscar had invited Labib
over to his cabin to work on
stuff for the business incubator,
because it had a big stone fireplace
to keep the living room warm and
they could watch deer playing
on the frozen pond or scrounging
for corn under the birdfeeders.
They spent the morning going over
new members and checking for
possible mentors to go with
the ones who wanted some.
More and more people wanted
to join the business incubator,
which was great, but also busy.
That meant more need for tools
and supplies, too, thus juggling
the budget to cover those.
Labib was really good with
numbers, which Oscar wasn't;
but Oscar knew the locals,
which Labib didn't; and
they made a great team.
When noon rolled around,
Oscar stretched and said,
"I'm getting hungry for lunch.
How about sandwiches? I
could do up some egg salad
or grilled cheese if you like,
and there's canned soup."
"Perhaps I'll have one of
those oranges I saw in
a bowl earlier," Labib said.
Oscar frowned at that.
There it was again.
Labib never seemed
to take food that Oscar
had actually cooked here.
He would accept fruits
or vegetables if they
were whole and could
be washed or peeled
before eating them.
He would eat anything
out of a sealed container
that had a halal label, cold.
But he would not accept
an offer of a hot sandwich
or a bowl of soup or anything
cooked in Oscar's kitchen.
His wife and kids took
their cues from Labib.
Oscar wasn't quite sure
whether it was him or
the kitchen that was
causing the problem.
Labib hadn't hesitated
to eat food that Oscar
had made with the family
in their own kitchen, though,
so probably it was the kitchen.
"You want to tell me what I'm
doing wrong here?" Oscar asked.
Labib sighed. "Technically, nothing,"
he said. "It is permissible to eat from
a kitchen which is not halal, so long
as the food itself is halal and utensils
have been cleaned. It is merely ..."
He grimaced. "... unappetizing."
Oscar remembered the time
one of his cousins had tried
cooking roadkill in the kitchen.
He hadn't wanted to eat out of
there, either, even after it'd been
scrubbed with oven cleaner by
his cousin under the hawk-eye
of their exasperated grandmother.
It had been that or go hungry,
though, so eventually he'd eaten
what he was served and tried
to forget about the roadkill.
"Okay, I get that," said Oscar.
"Eating out of a not-halal kitchen
is gross to you. Can I fix that?"
"You don't need to," Labib said.
"I get plenty of food now, so
a simple snack is plenty."
Oscar tried to hide his wince.
"Yeah, no, that makes me feel
like the worst host ever," he said.
"I want to be able to toast a sandwich
or make soup without freaking you out.
Is there anything we can do about it?"
Labib looked conflicted, which was
really not what Oscar wanted, he
didn't want to be That Guy, but he also
didn't want to eat a hot sandwich
in front of a friend who didn't
feel like sharing the food.
"When we moved in, we
cleaned the kitchen very well,
and now it is halal," said Labib.
"Here it is ... not so simple."
Oscar looked around at
his cramped kitchen.
It was a kitchen only by
virtue of full-sized appliances,
with a dining table and chairs
squeezed into the far side,
not because it was actually
bigger than a kitchenette.
"Okay, well ... I've seen
you eat out, and not just at
Kardal's truck," said Oscar.
"So what's different there?"
Labib brightened. "Places
that sell halal food have
a separate station to make it."
"So like they do for allergies?"
Oscar said thoughtfully. He
looked at his kitchen again.
There was that bit of counter
at the end which he hardly used.
"Maybe we could do that here."
"Is there room?" Labib said,
frowning. "This place is so small."
Oscar shrugged. "It's just me here
most of the time, not like I live with
a family," he said. "You're my friend,
you bring your family over here too,
and I'd like to be able to feed you."
"When we came to Family Business Rest,
the kitchens were cleaned, but there were
also these ..." Labib made a pot shape
with his hands. "... that were new."
"Oh yeah, the crockpots," said Oscar.
"I remember Gideon doing something
with those and stuff like toasters,
skillets, other countertop appliances."
"Perhaps something like that, then,
which would not take up too much
of your space," Labib suggested.
"Yeah, let me check out the store
where the local restaurants and
bed-and-breakfasts buy stuff,"
Oscar said as he reached for
his tablet computer. "They've
got things at lower prices there."
He vaguely remembered
having seen things designed
for apartment kitchenettes that
mashed together three or four
different appliances into one.
The bed-and-breakfast owners
liked such things because those
could be put in a suite for guests
who preferred to fix their own food,
without needing a whole kitchen.
Sure enough, Oscar quickly found
a rice cooker that would also sauté,
steam, slow cook, or keep food warm.
It came in a rainbow of colors, too.
"Hey, Labib," he said, turning
his tablet around. "My appliances
and other things are mostly white.
Do you want yours a different color
so we can tell them apart easily?
There's a green on here, not like
Muslim green, but at least not white."
"That will work," Labib said. "At least
let me buy the equipment, you are
doing enough just to share your home."
"Nah, don't worry about it," Oscar said.
"We're near enough to family, you've
had me over to your place plenty."
"Akhi," Labib said fondly, smiling
at him. "My friend, my brother.
Perhaps we could share the cost?"
Oscar looked at the catalog.
"There's plenty of stuff here."
In addition to the slow cooker,
which they definitely wanted
to make soup, there was also
a breakfast station that included
a toaster oven, a griddle pan,
and a coffee machine.
Labib found a set of
bakeware to match
the breakfast station,
then various utensils.
Oscar spotted a knife block
with knives, and a cutting board.
Labib had dishware and silverware,
along with a stack of mixing bowls.
That was enough to cook with,
at least for making basic things
or heating up something premade.
Oscar put in the order and let
Labib pay for half of it. That
was fair, splitting the bill.
Then Oscar got up to wipe
the countertop clean.
He checked inside of
the cabinets over and
under the counter there.
They didn't have a lot
in them since he had
only himself to cook for
most of the time; he didn't
need much equipment for it.
"Why are you emptying
the cabinets?" Labib asked.
"So you can put your gear in there
when you're not using it," Oscar said.
"Might as well add the halal food too."
He'd been storing a few things like
snacks on one shelf, but now it made
more sense to put all that together.
It wasn't that big a deal, really.
Was it? Oscar didn't think so.
The first time Labib had wanted
to do the wudu thing here, Oscar
had sent him upstairs to use
the common bathroom, since
the powder room down here
was so tiny that Oscar was
afraid Labib would've broken
his neck trying to do it in there.
This wasn't that different, just
buying a few extra kitchen bits
and letting Labib borrow a part
of the countertop that Oscar
had hardly ever used anyway.
Oscar bundled the last few items
into one hand and waved the other
at the counter. "It's all yours."
Labib smiled. "Taarradhin,"
he said. "A compromise that
makes everyone happy."
"It's just perception and
perspective," Oscar said.
"I noticed that you weren't
keen about the kitchen, and
all I had to do was think
my way around to how you
saw it to figure out a solution."
He pushed the loose items
into a cabinet, then spotted
something he'd bought earlier.
"Oh hey," Oscar said happily.
"These are halal, and they heat
right in the pouch. Is that okay?"
He'd gotten a variety pack of
four different flavors, Indian
something-or-other, because
they sounded interesting and
had a halal label on them.
There were rice pouches,
too, from a different company.
Labib was maybe rubbing off
on him a bit, when it came
to trying different foods.
The older man leaned over
to look at the labels, then
nodded. "Chickpea masala."
"Yeah, we can split that one,"
Oscar said. "Each pouch
has two servings in it."
He put a pouch of rice
and a pouch of chickpeas
into the microwave oven,
and then turned it on.
While those heated,
Oscar washed bowls
and spoons the way
that he'd seen folks from
the Triton Teen Center do it.
Maybe that would help Labib
relax about the food issues.
It seemed to work, because
when the timer went off, Labib
helped Oscar to distribute
the food into their bowls.
They sat down at
the small table to eat.
Labib kept looking at
Oscar and smiling a bit.
The chickpea stuff was ...
actually pretty good, if not
quite as good as Kardal's food.
Definitely worth keeping in
the pantry for his guests.
Oscar probably never
would have discovered
stuff like this if Labib
hadn't come in his life
and stirred everything up.
Sometimes that got confusing,
but Oscar wouldn't have
wanted to miss this.
It was like having
an older brother or
an uncle, and he had
family but not many of
them were still local.
Labib's company was
totally worth clearing out
a bit of kitchen space and
buying a few new things.
"What was it you said
earlier?" Oscar mused.
"Sounds like tar adding?"
"Taarradhin," Labib said.
"A compromise where
everyone feels they won."
"Yeah, that," said Oscar.
"I'm glad we worked it out."
Labib brushed his fingers
against Oscar's. "Me too."
* * *
Notes:
This poem is long, so its notes appear separately.
(no subject)
Date: 2023-02-11 04:40 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2023-02-12 05:27 am (UTC)We did something like that once. Officially it was a Thanksgiving meal, but we encouraged people to bring stuff potluck-style. So we ended up with some traditional American [USA-ian] foods, and a very eclectic collection of international dishes.
(no subject)
Date: 2023-02-13 10:15 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2023-02-13 02:51 pm (UTC)That can happen. A workaround suggestion I've heard is to ask people to sign up by category of dish - main dish, sides, dessert, etc.
Stores tend to have employee potlucks on Black Friday, and my go to for that is usually bananas (not commonly forbidden by any religious/medical/allergy restrictions, don't need refrigeration and don't need prep or utensils) or a cooler and ice to put sodas in (frees up limited space in the fridge for food, keeps the drinks cold, and can be left and picked up a day or two later).
A more traditional potluck, I will try to bring either something that fits the theme, or if cooking, something I feel I can do well.
(no subject)
Date: 2023-02-14 01:34 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2023-02-15 08:30 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2023-02-19 01:24 am (UTC)Well ...
Date: 2023-02-19 01:57 am (UTC)* Bring a beverage, like a jug of apple cider.
* Buy something like a loaf of bread or a dessert.
* Help wash dishes afterwards.
If this is a picnic, another option is bringing disposable plates, cups, utensils, napkins, etc.
(no subject)
Date: 2023-02-19 03:43 am (UTC)Options:
- wash-and-eat fruit [apples, oranges, bananas, etc]. or a fruit basket.
- plates, utensils, cups and napkins (usually the events I've been at use disposables).
- a cooler and ice (as mentioned elsethread) for drinks. Maybe separate ice to put in the drinks.
- if going somewhere early/cold/both, stop off at Dunkin' Donuts and get some coffee, hot chocolate, and donughts.
- premade stuff from the grocery store. Pie/cake, cheese plates, muffins, veggie trays, etc.
- No cook things: bread/peanut butter/jelly, bagels/cream cheese, applesauce, and, yes, chips (add salsa, sour cream, and guacamole, too.)
(no subject)
Date: 2023-02-14 01:38 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2023-02-14 05:47 pm (UTC)The cynical part of me remembers that lactose intolerance was likely part of why the Vikings didn't manage to keep a permanent settlement in what is now Canada.
The scientific part of me remembers that food and friendship both activate the same part(s) of the brain.
But food can be a great bonding experience.
(no subject)
Date: 2023-02-15 08:35 am (UTC)Of course, every group has a food that's a test for outsiders - sheep eyeballs in Arabic countries, lutefisk for Norwegians, Icelandic fermented shark, Vegemite in Australia.
I did taste Vegemite. I had opened a jar of it, which was one of the amenities in my hotel foom (along with a toaster, so I could make toast with Vegemite for my breakfast). When i smelled it, it had an unpleasantly strong yeasty smell. But when I licked a tiny bit of it off my friend's fingertip, it just tasted salty.
Yes ...
Date: 2023-02-15 08:47 am (UTC)Well, yeah. It's a Nigerian recipe. Our first trip to the shop, we scoped out ingredients that looked interesting and tracked down recipes.
Re: Yes ...
Date: 2023-02-15 10:01 am (UTC)Re: Yes ...
Date: 2023-02-19 01:07 am (UTC)Re: Yes ...
Date: 2023-02-19 01:21 am (UTC)https://afrofood.com/product/sweet-honey-beans/
https://trueloveseeds.com/products/ewa-oloyin-honey-bean
And this is the recipe we use:
https://www.nigerianfoodtv.com/2013/05/adalu-nigerian-beans-and-corn-porridge.html
Re: Yes ...
Date: 2023-02-19 04:07 am (UTC)I wonder if it makes sense to routinely use other-culture terms/jargon alongside whatever translation is commonly used. I think otherwise a lot of times the nuance is lost.
Oh, and a trick I picked up somewhere: for a foreign word type or CopyPaste the word into Google Images, and you will get a good range of what the concept of that word is which might be interestingly different than the translation would imply. (Also useful for communicating through a language barrier.)
Of course, you also get odd results sometimes. When I tried it with 'ragdoll' one time, I got images of ragdoll cats not ragdoll toys,
Re: Yes ...
Date: 2023-02-19 05:59 am (UTC)Re: Yes ...
Date: 2023-02-20 06:09 pm (UTC)Re: Yes ...
Date: 2023-02-20 11:25 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2023-02-16 11:33 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2023-02-17 01:46 am (UTC)I don't think the problem was beef, but... well, food intolerances are a mess nowadays, with all of our mixed cuisines and intolerances and awareness of it being an issue. Add in a language barrier and it is even more of a mess.
People making first contact in the tenth and eleventh centuries probably wouldn't have the concept of food intolerances, and neither group would have known enough to ask. So, I'd bet there was a big gathering, and everyone shared food including some dairy dishes, and only half of the participants got sick, except maybe someone's little kids or elderly parents get /really/ sick. The first thought wouldn't be "Hmmm, let's test for food intolerance," but "You poisoner! I shall have my revenge!" and thereby starting a war.
>>And bison and ordinary cows can interbreed, and some people say the meat is tastier and better for you than plain cow.<<
Wonder if anyone's done genetic testing to see if there are beefalo descended from the 11th century cattle...
Thoughts
Date: 2023-02-17 02:19 am (UTC)When I was little, food issues were extremely rare. There were old people whose bodies were breaking down, and then there was me, and that was it. In our entire monkeysphere. Now almost everyone has stuff they can't eat. In a few decades, we've either broken food, broken humans, or both. It's appalling. The problem has always existed, but it was never so ubiquitous.
>>People making first contact in the tenth and eleventh centuries probably wouldn't have the concept of food intolerances, and neither group would have known enough to ask. So, I'd bet there was a big gathering, and everyone shared food including some dairy dishes, and only half of the participants got sick, except maybe someone's little kids or elderly parents get /really/ sick. The first thought wouldn't be "Hmmm, let's test for food intolerance," but "You poisoner! I shall have my revenge!" and thereby starting a war.<<
I doubt it. What they had back then was food that was often iffy, so getting sick from food wasn't a huge surprise unless it did something truly bizarre, like ergot poisoning. Plus, people who traveled -- the Vikings and the Turtle Island traders -- would've had experience with other people's food and the fact that "edible" is a matter of opinion. So not the same way we would look at things, but an awareness that sometimes food does things it shouldn't. And unless they were very hungry, they probably wouldn't eat that particular food again.
>>Wonder if anyone's done genetic testing to see if there are beefalo descended from the 11th century cattle...<<
As far as I know, nobody has checked. They've checked whether bison have cow genes and that's it. Most of that has been checking for white Brahma to rule out that as a cause of white buffalo. I haven't heard of anyone checking for date of introduced genes. It would be sensible to check for though.
Re: Thoughts
Date: 2023-02-17 03:12 am (UTC)Another possible contributing factor I haven't really seen discussed: for most people during most of history, you eat what is available or you die. So it is possible that there were people who had food allergies, and they just...died in childhood. Poor children would have just been deemed something like 'failure to thrive,' but here is a more somewhat famous person:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Heinrich_Heineken
Sure, it may not be the only contributing factor, but it is worth considering and it would definitely skew the results of the surviving population if anyone with anaphylaxis, severe celiac disease etc is removed from the population before their sixth birthday.
>>What they had back then was food that was often iffy, so getting sick from food wasn't a huge surprise unless it did something truly bizarre, like ergot poisoning.<<
Well, the standout 'odd thing' in this case would be affecting one group of people while leaving the other group completely untouched; and I have heard of modern people trying to develop actual weapons that do that sort of thing. (Stupid idea, but people still do it.)
>>Plus, people who traveled -- the Vikings and the Turtle Island traders -- would've had experience with other people's food and the fact that "edible" is a matter of opinion. So not the same way we would look at things, but an awareness that sometimes food does things it shouldn't. <<
Hmmm, good point. Though there is a(n admittedly overlapping) difference between 'not considered food' and 'will make you sick if you eat it,' and even today people have trouble sorting those concepts out.
From a social perspective, it would also factor in how socially attached the two communities were. Are there enough cross-cultural relationships that you can try each other's foods in a casual setting, and gently work out your cultural differences in a safe and low pressure setting? Or is it a stressful situation, where everyone is already on edge ad any mistake might cause a disproportionate problem?
>>Most of that has been checking for white Brahma to rule out that as a cause of white buffalo. I haven't heard of anyone checking for date of introduced genes. It would be sensible to check for though.<<
Also, compare any found genes to extant heritage breeds. Different DNA matches would indicate different things about migration patterns.
While we are at it, might that also be a way to settle the Great North American Horse Debate, if we can check for gene flow durig the last Ice Age?
(no subject)
Date: 2023-02-19 01:04 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2023-02-19 04:01 am (UTC)- farming culture vs ranching culture
- the existence of a functional conflict-resolution system (law, tradition, whatever)
- personhood status off all participants
- relationships between the two or more different groups
- property law (what counts as property and what doesn't)
- external stressors
- general cultural compatibility (a Viking and a Buddhist walk into a bar...)
(no subject)
Date: 2023-02-19 01:20 am (UTC)And when you get to understand those things, it's harder to hate people. Talking about the people who gave us maize in all its multiple forms, you can't just say "All Mexicans are dope dealers and car thieves; don't let them cross the border."
(no subject)
Date: 2023-02-19 03:34 am (UTC)The /rituals/ around eating are informative too:
- Chopsticks came into being because eating with a knife and fork was considered barbaric.
- Deafblind folks favor finger foods, for ease of consumption and the sensory experience.
- The tradition of offering/sharing food in the Middle East is much more ritualized than in America (...and I have a few funny stories about that.)
- The whole song-and-dance of checking for allergens and /observing the provider's response/ is an important safety skill for folk with severe allergies, and very few folk without allergies learn the nuances of that.
Yes ...
Date: 2023-02-20 02:18 am (UTC)I have noticed Labib very deliberately using food-sharing to staple Oscar into his family.
Re: Yes ...
Date: 2023-02-20 06:31 pm (UTC)Though if you drop an American and a Middle Easterner into a shared social interaction without prior cultural experience, the different food rituals will usually stress everyone out, with the American feeling pressured and the Middle Easterner feeling rejected. Yes, the 'sad puppy look' does transfer across cultures. (Don't worry, I can now identify that specific problem, and have better responses than 'be confused, be very confused.')
I think a healthy perspective is to offer, but not take it personally if the other person isn't interested, and in time you will get used to each others' differences, rather than getting stressed whenever someone doesn't follow the script exactly. And pay attention to likes and dislikes -
people are more likely to do new/unfamiliar stuff with you if you remember what they do/don't like.
Re: Yes ...
Date: 2023-02-21 08:43 am (UTC)It's working well enough for Oscar, who is about as American as it gets, to expand the range of what he'll eat.
Re: Yes ...
Date: 2023-02-23 05:43 am (UTC)Of course, Terramagne would likely have touched on the specific topic with those cultural awareness classes they offered before all the refugees moved in.
And yes, offering interesting new experiences without being pushy or obnoxious is a good way to encourage people to stretch their boundaries.
Re: Yes ...
Date: 2023-02-23 06:02 am (UTC)That's true.
>> Of course, Terramagne would likely have touched on the specific topic with those cultural awareness classes they offered before all the refugees moved in. <<
They offered such classes to both sides. Probably most of the refugees took some; I'm sure Labib would have. Oscar, well, he started out opposed to the whole idea, so he wouldn't have taken any unless the park service required it for their employees. It was only after the mayor hooked him up with Labib that Oscar started to warm up to the refugees.
>>And yes, offering interesting new experiences without being pushy or obnoxious is a good way to encourage people to stretch their boundaries.<<
Labib is good at that. Oscar is ... stubborn and not highly cultured, but he is practical and once he saw how useful the refugees were, he quit dragging his feet. He cares more about Vermont than about politics.
Re: Yes ...
Date: 2023-02-23 06:16 am (UTC)A potential limitation is that people in a fried mental state might have trouble assimilating new information. Fortunately, /something/ would have stuck, even if only "cultural differences are a thing, so if you aren't getting the right response stay calm/don't panic."
>>Oscar, well, he started out opposed to the whole idea, so he wouldn't have taken any unless the park service required it for their employees. It was only after the mayor hooked him up with Labib that Oscar started to warm up to the refugees.<<
If Labib took a course, that might have smoothed things over a bit. At least he wouldn't have started freaking out if Oscar refused an offer of food. Also maybe following up with asking someone else or Googling confusing American behavior (I've done both).
...he [Labib] likely did take a course, especially if he was expecting to be the 'face person' for the project.
>>Labib is good at that. Oscar is ... stubborn and not highly cultured, but he is practical and once he saw how useful the refugees were, he quit dragging his feet. He cares more about Vermont than about politics.<<
1) Socially clueless may still pick up on Polite Social Behavior if it is repeated often enough. Plus, humans tend to imitate our favorite people, so some of the rituals will rub off on Oscar eventually. Though I think some of them already have.
2) Enlightened self-interest is a very good way to get people to improve their behavior.
Re: Yes ...
Date: 2023-02-23 07:21 am (UTC)They had a range of classes from the basics for upset people to a detailed introduction for more functional novices to finer points for folks already familiar with some foreign topics. The most basic one would've had things like "Most American food is haram, but Refugee Services will provide halal food and the town is working to expand its options. Here are some polite phrases in English explain your dietary needs."
>> If Labib took a course, that might have smoothed things over a bit. At least he wouldn't have started freaking out if Oscar refused an offer of food. Also maybe following up with asking someone else or Googling confusing American behavior (I've done both).<<
True. But Oscar is rustic enough and family-oriented enough to see food as bonding, and thus be inclined to accept unless it's something really bizarre. So that helps.
>> ...he [Labib] likely did take a course, especially if he was expecting to be the 'face person' for the project.<<
He's probably taken more than one, because he came in with some experience and good English, then after taking on the new project he likely wanted more on American business etiquette.
>> 1) Socially clueless may still pick up on Polite Social Behavior if it is repeated often enough. Plus, humans tend to imitate our favorite people, so some of the rituals will rub off on Oscar eventually. Though I think some of them already have.<<
Oscar is picking up more over time, as he gets more attached to Labib's family.
>> 2) Enlightened self-interest is a very good way to get people to improve their behavior.<<
True, and Labib is very good at that with Oscar.
(no subject)
Date: 2023-02-19 01:33 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2023-02-19 03:53 am (UTC)Anyway, the American staff and volunteers arraigned making some of the traditional Thanksgiving stuff (i.e. turkey, cider, etc) and we encouraged everyone to bring something.
My main funny story from that is I was trying to label things (running stuff through Google Translate and then copying the image of the words), and I had to ask someone down to check if I had the right translation for '[apple] cider.' And then the other person didn't know the English word, so I had to describe the process of /making/ cider.
Thoughts
Date: 2023-02-19 06:00 am (UTC)Re: Thoughts
Date: 2023-02-20 06:04 pm (UTC)"It's a drink. You take bruised apples and ferment them...it's nonalcoholic, okay for kids to drink, and popular this time of year."
Don't remember the exact words, this was awhile ago.
I'd probably explain cider apples as 'the best apples to make cider with,' possibly adding info about the taste or color if I knew it (which I don't unless I google it). Of course, an explanation of what cider is still might be neccesary.
(no subject)
Date: 2023-02-11 05:58 am (UTC)