ysabetwordsmith (
ysabetwordsmith) wrote2013-10-28 12:03 am
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Story: "Hide and Seek" Part 34
This story is a sequel to "Love Is for Children," "Eggshells," "Dolls and Guys," "Turnabout Is Fair Play," and "Touching Moments," "Splash," "Coming Around," "Birthday Girl," and "No Winter Lasts Forever."
Fandom: The Avengers
Characters: Phil Coulson, Clint Barton, Natasha Romanova, Tony Stark, Bruce Banner, Steve Rogers, Betty Ross, JARVIS, Bucky Barnes, Virginia "Pepper" Potts.
Medium: Fiction
Warnings: Inferences of past child abuse, mind control, and other torture. Current environment is supportive.
Summary: Bucky has a bad day when his memory won't boot up quite right. This makes other people stressed out too. Attempts to help are partially successful, but then the team dynamics go severely pear-shaped.
Notes: Asexual character (Clint). Aromantic character (Natasha). Asexual relationship. Sibling relationships. Fix-it. Teamwork. Vulgar language. Flangst. Hurt/Comfort. Fear of loss. Friendship. Confusion. Memory loss. Nonsexual ageplay. Making up for lost time. Self-harm. Tony!whump. Tony Stark has a heart. Tony doesn't like being handed things. Howard Stark's A+ parenting. Games. Trust issues. Consent. Safety and security. Artificial intelligence. Food issues. Multiplicity/Plurality. Non-sexual touching and intimacy. Yoga. Communication. Personal growth. Cooking. Americana. Family of choice. Feels. #coulsonlives.
Begin with Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4, Part 5, Part 6, Part 7, Part 8, Part 9, Part 10, Part 11, Part 12, Part 13, Part 14, Part 15, Part 16, Part 17, Part 18, Part 19, Part 20, Part 21, Part 22, Part 23, Part 24, Part 25, Part 26, Part 27, Part 28, Part 29, Part 30, Part 31, Part 32, Part 33. Skip to Part 36, Part 37, Part 38, Part 39.
"Hide and Seek" Part 34
"Yeah ... about that," Tony said. "In the garage, I let you see something that nobody's ever seen before, because I needed it to help Bucky. I knew you and Steve wouldn't want me just disappearing with him, so ... that's what I did instead." His voice hitched and skipped over the words. "It was good for me, too, I think. Just. Hard, you know? Because usually when I leave myself open like that, people reach in and hurt me. You didn't. You held back. You were willing to look, but not touch. Huh, read-only access. I needed ... to see it. To know that you'd do that."
"You needed to trust us," Phil said softly. "You needed us to trust that you knew what you were doing."
Tony nodded, his eyes huge and bright with unshed tears. "Yeah."
Phil understood that trust came hard for Tony. Howard had given his son plenty of things but rarely attention. Alcohol only added to the erratic emotional environment. That left Tony with disorganized attachment that still showed in his current relationships, where he tended to waffle between pulling people closer and pushing them away. Tony's faith in his teamfamily now relied on consistency and honesty. That made Phil realize that he needed to share something more.
"I have a confession," Phil said. "When we were searching for you, I thought that you might have hidden in the toolshed. I made a decision about that. I would have saved it for the absolute last place in the tower, but if we hadn't found you anywhere else, I would have looked there."
"It's okay," Tony said with a wavering smile. "If something had gone really wrong in there, so that I couldn't just haul Bucky out myself, I would have called you and Steve through the door. I wouldn't have let you see the toolshed in the first place if I didn't trust you. Hell, I wouldn't have let you in my garage."
"Thank you for placing that much faith in us," Phil said.
"Thanks for being worth it," Tony said. "I'm just glad it didn't come to that. Being that vulnerable hurts too much. It's like -- like when I first had to learn how to breathe around the electromagnet, with the raw ends of my ribs shifting against the casing every time I took a breath. Too new. Too big. Too open."
"That sounds terrible," Phil said. He'd seen images of Tony's chest with the shadowy ring of cartilage and bone that Yinsen had grafted together around the white hole of metal. "You healed around it, though -- even made it better, with the arc reactor. Now it's a source of power instead of pain."
"Story of my life," Tony said.
"Turning vulnerabilities into strengths? Yes, I suppose it is," Phil said. "It might help for you to try mapping your boundaries. List what you feel comfortable doing and what you don't, which people have access to different parts of your life, how safe you feel relying on them, and so forth."
"I'm not really good at that. I don't see boundaries the same way other people do, I guess. I do better flying by the seat of my pants," Tony said.
"Until you bend over too far and rip something," Phil said.
"Well ... yeah, that's on YouTube," Tony said.
Sadly in several versions, figurative and literal, Phil mused. Aloud he added, "You don't have to be perfect at this. There are worksheets and things that can help."
Tony made a face. "Now you're giving me homework?"
"Just suggestions," Phil said. "You've used computer metaphors several times. If that works for you, go with it. The similarities between appropriate personal boundaries and user authorizations are close enough that it should make some real improvement."
"Okay. I'll see what I can do with that," Tony said.
"I wish you would take more care with Bucky in particular," Phil said. "You keep drawing him deeper into levels of intimacy that you don't feel fully comfortable with. I don't want you to hurt yourself in the process. That's bad for you, and bad for the team."
"I can take it," Tony said.
"Can you really?" Phil said. "I look at what happened in the garage, both times -- you pulled yourself so far open in the morning, I think it made you clench up tighter in the evening. Then you weren't the only one who got hurt by that; you blew up and took it out on everyone else in range."
"Well, that's what happens when things are under pressure. They tend to explode," Tony said. He flung up his hands in illustration of that.
"We need to think of ways to minimize that kind of damage," Phil said.
"What would you suggest, then?" Tony asked. "I can't just ignore Bucky when he's falling apart on me, any more than I could ignore an engine falling out of my car."
"Try a more oblique approach to tapping off the pressure, if you can't always think of a solution that avoids building it up. I think you should work on asking for what you need in ageplay," Phil said. "If that means requesting extra time with me, I'll give you as much as I can. If that means misbehaving, it's okay, do that. Holding it in until it spurts out sideways is not helping. Game night is our safe space to let off steam. A safety valve only works if it can open at need, not if it's latched shut."
"I'm not sure ..." Tony said. One heel kicked against the couch.
"Let's try it," Phil said. "Most of the other team members have had some one-on-one time with Uncle Phil. Maybe that would help you too. We could explore that tonight, if you like."
"I can't switch down," Tony said quietly. "I've tried, in private. You said I needed more coping skills, so I thought maybe that would work for me, hug a teddy bear or something. Didn't work. I'm stuck. It's
like -- like a cramp, I can't move, can't work it out."
* * *
Notes:
Many life rules revolve around vulnerability and trust, which are often painful but necessary things. The need to trust is a vital component of happiness, as is the need to feel love. Emotions aren't just ephemeral feelings; they correlate with powerful neurochemicals that match the development of trust and betrayal. The difference between trust and reliance is a crucial part of what allows society to function, because we don't always know people well enough to trust them but often need to rely on strangers. Understanding the aspects of trust makes it easier to work with. Read some instructions for trusting yourself, trusting others, and being trustworthy. Tony is just getting to where he feels the need to trust and be trusted, but doesn't always know what to do with that.
Read-only access can refer to computer memory or file system permissions, both useful in considering social interactions.
Attachment theory describes different types of relationship between parents and children. Abuse or other unhealthy dynamics can rupture the natural connection, creating a reactive attachment disorder. There are ways to heal the damage and develop healthy attachment, and you can see how much of this Phil has been doing with the Avengers. Attachment theory for adults mainly focuses on romantic relationships, but it really applies to a wider range. Adult attachment therapy uses some of the same techniques as for children. Tony has disorganized attachment but leans toward insecure/avoidant, showing a push-pull pattern with mixed behaviors from other categories which is visible in canon. Bucky is disorganized largely due to the energy interference and mind control damage, but still has the remnants of secure attachment. Steve is quite secure, hence one of the most balanced Avengers. Bruce is insecure/anxious, often motivated by fear, with a tendency toward regressive and clingy behavior.
Honesty is a crucial friendship skill. Understand how to be honest without being harsh. Healthy relationships require effective communication. Parents need to encourage children toward open discussion of difficult topics in case trouble arises. Practice open and honest communication in relationships. Notice that Tony and Phil are talking not just about what happened, but what could have happened; that gives them a better idea of how each of them will respond in the future. It's a different kind of radical honesty than what Bucky did by revealing his side of the garage fight, but it's a similar move to strengthen relationships by sharing touchy information that could easily have been left hidden.
Healing from past trauma can be a long journey, especially if there are complications. There are steps for recovering from adult trauma and childhood trauma. Be gentle with yourself while healing. It takes time and work to transmute weaknesses to strengths.
Healthy personal boundaries have different types and textures. Dysfunctional families tend to have unhealthy boundaries plagued by invasions. Developing maturity requires establishing appropriate boundaries. Understand the components of boundaries so that you can build and preserve yours. Boundaries nest in rings, from the self through intimate relationships to more distant ones. People in different rings are allowed or disallowed different behaviors. List some of your boundaries and actions you take to protect them. One of my readers found a checklist of physical boundaries like the always-sometimes-never set I mentioned.
Sometimes trying to help winds up hurting someone instead. When people are in pain, they tend to lash out at everyone around them. They may turn to self-destructive behavior, claiming that they're only hurting themselves, because they don't see how hurting themselves also hurts other people. There are ways to deal with a self-destructive friend. Tony's boundary-blindness makes it difficult for him to gauge how close connections are, and therefore, it's hard for him to feel how his actions impact others until people show or tell him explicitly.
Stress has many negative effects on life. Pressure release valves are therefore necessary to prevent emotional explosions. Know how to release pressure and relieve stress. Coordinate efforts with a stress management plan. You can help a stressed friend too.
[To be continued in Part 35 ...]
Fandom: The Avengers
Characters: Phil Coulson, Clint Barton, Natasha Romanova, Tony Stark, Bruce Banner, Steve Rogers, Betty Ross, JARVIS, Bucky Barnes, Virginia "Pepper" Potts.
Medium: Fiction
Warnings: Inferences of past child abuse, mind control, and other torture. Current environment is supportive.
Summary: Bucky has a bad day when his memory won't boot up quite right. This makes other people stressed out too. Attempts to help are partially successful, but then the team dynamics go severely pear-shaped.
Notes: Asexual character (Clint). Aromantic character (Natasha). Asexual relationship. Sibling relationships. Fix-it. Teamwork. Vulgar language. Flangst. Hurt/Comfort. Fear of loss. Friendship. Confusion. Memory loss. Nonsexual ageplay. Making up for lost time. Self-harm. Tony!whump. Tony Stark has a heart. Tony doesn't like being handed things. Howard Stark's A+ parenting. Games. Trust issues. Consent. Safety and security. Artificial intelligence. Food issues. Multiplicity/Plurality. Non-sexual touching and intimacy. Yoga. Communication. Personal growth. Cooking. Americana. Family of choice. Feels. #coulsonlives.
Begin with Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4, Part 5, Part 6, Part 7, Part 8, Part 9, Part 10, Part 11, Part 12, Part 13, Part 14, Part 15, Part 16, Part 17, Part 18, Part 19, Part 20, Part 21, Part 22, Part 23, Part 24, Part 25, Part 26, Part 27, Part 28, Part 29, Part 30, Part 31, Part 32, Part 33. Skip to Part 36, Part 37, Part 38, Part 39.
"Hide and Seek" Part 34
"Yeah ... about that," Tony said. "In the garage, I let you see something that nobody's ever seen before, because I needed it to help Bucky. I knew you and Steve wouldn't want me just disappearing with him, so ... that's what I did instead." His voice hitched and skipped over the words. "It was good for me, too, I think. Just. Hard, you know? Because usually when I leave myself open like that, people reach in and hurt me. You didn't. You held back. You were willing to look, but not touch. Huh, read-only access. I needed ... to see it. To know that you'd do that."
"You needed to trust us," Phil said softly. "You needed us to trust that you knew what you were doing."
Tony nodded, his eyes huge and bright with unshed tears. "Yeah."
Phil understood that trust came hard for Tony. Howard had given his son plenty of things but rarely attention. Alcohol only added to the erratic emotional environment. That left Tony with disorganized attachment that still showed in his current relationships, where he tended to waffle between pulling people closer and pushing them away. Tony's faith in his teamfamily now relied on consistency and honesty. That made Phil realize that he needed to share something more.
"I have a confession," Phil said. "When we were searching for you, I thought that you might have hidden in the toolshed. I made a decision about that. I would have saved it for the absolute last place in the tower, but if we hadn't found you anywhere else, I would have looked there."
"It's okay," Tony said with a wavering smile. "If something had gone really wrong in there, so that I couldn't just haul Bucky out myself, I would have called you and Steve through the door. I wouldn't have let you see the toolshed in the first place if I didn't trust you. Hell, I wouldn't have let you in my garage."
"Thank you for placing that much faith in us," Phil said.
"Thanks for being worth it," Tony said. "I'm just glad it didn't come to that. Being that vulnerable hurts too much. It's like -- like when I first had to learn how to breathe around the electromagnet, with the raw ends of my ribs shifting against the casing every time I took a breath. Too new. Too big. Too open."
"That sounds terrible," Phil said. He'd seen images of Tony's chest with the shadowy ring of cartilage and bone that Yinsen had grafted together around the white hole of metal. "You healed around it, though -- even made it better, with the arc reactor. Now it's a source of power instead of pain."
"Story of my life," Tony said.
"Turning vulnerabilities into strengths? Yes, I suppose it is," Phil said. "It might help for you to try mapping your boundaries. List what you feel comfortable doing and what you don't, which people have access to different parts of your life, how safe you feel relying on them, and so forth."
"I'm not really good at that. I don't see boundaries the same way other people do, I guess. I do better flying by the seat of my pants," Tony said.
"Until you bend over too far and rip something," Phil said.
"Well ... yeah, that's on YouTube," Tony said.
Sadly in several versions, figurative and literal, Phil mused. Aloud he added, "You don't have to be perfect at this. There are worksheets and things that can help."
Tony made a face. "Now you're giving me homework?"
"Just suggestions," Phil said. "You've used computer metaphors several times. If that works for you, go with it. The similarities between appropriate personal boundaries and user authorizations are close enough that it should make some real improvement."
"Okay. I'll see what I can do with that," Tony said.
"I wish you would take more care with Bucky in particular," Phil said. "You keep drawing him deeper into levels of intimacy that you don't feel fully comfortable with. I don't want you to hurt yourself in the process. That's bad for you, and bad for the team."
"I can take it," Tony said.
"Can you really?" Phil said. "I look at what happened in the garage, both times -- you pulled yourself so far open in the morning, I think it made you clench up tighter in the evening. Then you weren't the only one who got hurt by that; you blew up and took it out on everyone else in range."
"Well, that's what happens when things are under pressure. They tend to explode," Tony said. He flung up his hands in illustration of that.
"We need to think of ways to minimize that kind of damage," Phil said.
"What would you suggest, then?" Tony asked. "I can't just ignore Bucky when he's falling apart on me, any more than I could ignore an engine falling out of my car."
"Try a more oblique approach to tapping off the pressure, if you can't always think of a solution that avoids building it up. I think you should work on asking for what you need in ageplay," Phil said. "If that means requesting extra time with me, I'll give you as much as I can. If that means misbehaving, it's okay, do that. Holding it in until it spurts out sideways is not helping. Game night is our safe space to let off steam. A safety valve only works if it can open at need, not if it's latched shut."
"I'm not sure ..." Tony said. One heel kicked against the couch.
"Let's try it," Phil said. "Most of the other team members have had some one-on-one time with Uncle Phil. Maybe that would help you too. We could explore that tonight, if you like."
"I can't switch down," Tony said quietly. "I've tried, in private. You said I needed more coping skills, so I thought maybe that would work for me, hug a teddy bear or something. Didn't work. I'm stuck. It's
like -- like a cramp, I can't move, can't work it out."
* * *
Notes:
Many life rules revolve around vulnerability and trust, which are often painful but necessary things. The need to trust is a vital component of happiness, as is the need to feel love. Emotions aren't just ephemeral feelings; they correlate with powerful neurochemicals that match the development of trust and betrayal. The difference between trust and reliance is a crucial part of what allows society to function, because we don't always know people well enough to trust them but often need to rely on strangers. Understanding the aspects of trust makes it easier to work with. Read some instructions for trusting yourself, trusting others, and being trustworthy. Tony is just getting to where he feels the need to trust and be trusted, but doesn't always know what to do with that.
Read-only access can refer to computer memory or file system permissions, both useful in considering social interactions.
Attachment theory describes different types of relationship between parents and children. Abuse or other unhealthy dynamics can rupture the natural connection, creating a reactive attachment disorder. There are ways to heal the damage and develop healthy attachment, and you can see how much of this Phil has been doing with the Avengers. Attachment theory for adults mainly focuses on romantic relationships, but it really applies to a wider range. Adult attachment therapy uses some of the same techniques as for children. Tony has disorganized attachment but leans toward insecure/avoidant, showing a push-pull pattern with mixed behaviors from other categories which is visible in canon. Bucky is disorganized largely due to the energy interference and mind control damage, but still has the remnants of secure attachment. Steve is quite secure, hence one of the most balanced Avengers. Bruce is insecure/anxious, often motivated by fear, with a tendency toward regressive and clingy behavior.
Honesty is a crucial friendship skill. Understand how to be honest without being harsh. Healthy relationships require effective communication. Parents need to encourage children toward open discussion of difficult topics in case trouble arises. Practice open and honest communication in relationships. Notice that Tony and Phil are talking not just about what happened, but what could have happened; that gives them a better idea of how each of them will respond in the future. It's a different kind of radical honesty than what Bucky did by revealing his side of the garage fight, but it's a similar move to strengthen relationships by sharing touchy information that could easily have been left hidden.
Healing from past trauma can be a long journey, especially if there are complications. There are steps for recovering from adult trauma and childhood trauma. Be gentle with yourself while healing. It takes time and work to transmute weaknesses to strengths.
Healthy personal boundaries have different types and textures. Dysfunctional families tend to have unhealthy boundaries plagued by invasions. Developing maturity requires establishing appropriate boundaries. Understand the components of boundaries so that you can build and preserve yours. Boundaries nest in rings, from the self through intimate relationships to more distant ones. People in different rings are allowed or disallowed different behaviors. List some of your boundaries and actions you take to protect them. One of my readers found a checklist of physical boundaries like the always-sometimes-never set I mentioned.
Sometimes trying to help winds up hurting someone instead. When people are in pain, they tend to lash out at everyone around them. They may turn to self-destructive behavior, claiming that they're only hurting themselves, because they don't see how hurting themselves also hurts other people. There are ways to deal with a self-destructive friend. Tony's boundary-blindness makes it difficult for him to gauge how close connections are, and therefore, it's hard for him to feel how his actions impact others until people show or tell him explicitly.
Stress has many negative effects on life. Pressure release valves are therefore necessary to prevent emotional explosions. Know how to release pressure and relieve stress. Coordinate efforts with a stress management plan. You can help a stressed friend too.
[To be continued in Part 35 ...]
no subject
(Anonymous) 2013-10-28 08:26 am (UTC)(link)Does your tony have issues with water? If so, the next scene could turn out ugly...
I'm glad that the problem of tony leaning out of his comfort zone got finally addressed. Even if tony says that it was necessary, he might keep in mind what Phil said and start thinking about his own boundaries from now on. That list of things might help... Although I could see tony being too ashamed of writing anything down while thinking "god, don't be such a baby about such a small thing".
I'm really excited about the next chapter!! Can't wait to see tiny tony again, pleeeease update as soon as possible. <3
Thank you!
Yay! That's good to hear.
>> I'm really looking forward to the next One. I'm glad we will get some kid time again, I sort of missed it- although the other chapters were really interesting. <<
There will be more of little-Tony later in the story. At the moment, he really is stuck, though. Phil is good at finding solutions, so the next scene is heavy on comfort and a lot similar to ageplay even when Tony is having trouble switching all the way down.
>> Does your tony have issues with water? <<
Yes. It's variable. Most of the time Tony is okay with small amounts of water, or running water. He does better with hot than with cold. Standing water still gets to him sometimes, because of the water torture. But it's gotten a lot better now that Tony has people around that he trusts. I think his subconscious parses it as "these people will pull me out if I'm drowning." He was fine with the improvised shower when they washed Hulk.
>> If so, the next scene could turn out ugly... <<
It has some tense moments.
>> I'm glad that the problem of tony leaning out of his comfort zone got finally addressed. Even if tony says that it was necessary, he might keep in mind what Phil said and start thinking about his own boundaries from now on. <<
It's an example of how boundary issues don't just hurt other people when Tony intrudes on them. He doesn't always protect himself appropriately either. Once his friends spot a pattern, they can help him navigate better. Sometimes self-disclosure really is necessary, but Tony can't always tell the difference when. So it's a good thing to be working on.
>> That list of things might help... <<
Yep. One of the best exercises for boundaries is just to make a big list of things that people do, or try to do, and when they are okay. "Always," "Sometimes," and "Never" are the basic categories but you can add more levels or customize for things like "At Night." I couldn't find a worksheet for this, but did find one for sorting things by people levels (family, friends, acquaintances, etc.).
>> Although I could see tony being too ashamed of writing anything down while thinking "god, don't be such a baby about such a small thing". <<
Tony often does feel ashamed of his damage. Once he gets rolling, sometimes he likes being able to say "no" to things, though. A lot of people pressure Tony to do stuff, and some of that isn't as benevolent as Phil trying to take care of him. Tony has a hard time distinguishing when he is really being unreasonable from when he is expressing a need to be gentle with his tender spots. So he's likely to do more writing out of boundaries than he's willing to share with anyone else. Even just having it for his own thoughts is helpful, though.
>> I'm really excited about the next chapter!! Can't wait to see tiny tony again, pleeeease update as soon as possible. <3 <<
This story customarily updates on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. I've got a lot going on this week so I may not be able to keep up perfectly, but you can keep an eye out. I'm glad you're enjoying this.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2013-10-28 01:26 pm (UTC)(link)There's a picture of such a worksheet for physical boundaries here: http://morrisseyandcake.wordpress.com/2013/07/03/physical-boundaries-checklist/
no subject
(Anonymous) 2013-10-29 01:19 am (UTC)(link)-songspinner9
Yes...
Yes, it does. It's helpful for any variable condition, or for cases where someone's parameters are really different from average. This applies both to psychological and physical things.
Also, it's a great indicator for whether people are decent or not. People worth being around will respect a simple list of parameters, although they might need help remembering a complicated list. People who won't make accommodations are to be avoided if possible.
>> my daughter, who has sensory processing issues, says she told her friends when and when not to touch her or when to keep distance when speaking with her and they've been cool with it,<<
Good idea. Sometimes people use a verbal color code, or a signal like jewelry or clothing colors, to indicate what state they're in. That works well for day-by-day changes.
*chuckle* Not something I have set officially, but a pretty consistent habit for me, is warning coloration. I'll wear something like black and red or black and yellow if I'm in a hair-trigger mood.
>> but I wish I had a list to use personally when my chronic illness acts up, too...hmmm... <<
It's well worth a try. Foods, fabrics, activities, places, topics -- sort whatever tends to shift the most or have the most effect on your condition. If you already have a list of triggers and/or symptoms for your illness, or things that intersect with it, you can start sorting based on those.
Thank you!
Think about the Avengers and you can see how they'd have issues with certain body parts that most people wouldn't. Tony is sensitive about his chest and hands. Clint is sensitive about arms and eyes. Not on this list, but one that Steve is alert to, is his lungs.
no subject
Tony is doing so well. I wish he knew that.
I wonder if it'd help Tony to have some Little time with more than one adult... it might help him to practice accepting authority if it's just "pretend" because he's little and they are big.
Of course, he'd need to get unstuck first. :( Poor dear, holding on so tightly he's forgotten how to let go.
Thank you!
Yay! That's always fun to hear.
>> Tony is doing so well. I wish he knew that. <<
He really is, despite the recent upsets. I think that Tony feels the effects of his progress, and that contributes to his unsettled state. He doesn't know what to do with those kinds of feelings. He probably doesn't see his progress or notice it consciously though. Fortunately Tony has other people around who can recognize his forward momentum and help him deal with it.
>> I wonder if it'd help Tony to have some Little time with more than one adult... <<
Yes, it would. One of the things he craves most is attention.
>> it might help him to practice accepting authority if it's just "pretend" because he's little and they are big. <<
This is one of the key benefits of ageplay for Tony, and to some extent for the other Littles as well. It gives them a chance to explore things in pretend, before they have to try it for real. It lets them build connections they can use later in different ways. Tony is still trying to wrap his mind around the idea of discipline that doesn't hurt and won't come loose when he pushes on it. It's like a safety rail. He really needs that. But healthy authority is relatively new to him, so he's still in the testing phase and doesn't fully grasp how to work with it yet, hence some of the mishaps. You can already see how it's helping in the field, though.
>> Of course, he'd need to get unstuck first. :( Poor dear, holding on so tightly he's forgotten how to let go. <<
Yeah, emotional cramps are no fun at all. It's exactly the same kind of vicious feedback loop that causes a muscle cramp: something starts to go wrong, it hurts, so you tense up, which makes it hurt worse, etc. Stretching too far can cause a spasm that pulls everything tight afterwards. That's basically what happened with Tony. So of course he couldn't switch down when he tried to; he's tied himself in knots. Fortunately Phil is on the right track in helping Tony relax.
Re: Thank you!
Nice that Howard wasn't able to taint Captain America's combat authority. Tony mostly falls into line except when he sees something Steve won't order. Of course, they were also away from Loki's staff when they were working together on the Helicarrier.
Re: Thank you!
I think Howard overshadowed everything having to do with Steve Rogers and Captain America, but that more of it was social damage than practical damage. It's easier for Tony to ignore when they're in combat. Most of his negative reaction to orders is from people telling him to do stupid things. Cap rarely does that, because his combat authority is honestly earned, not arbitrarily given.
>> Tony mostly falls into line except when he sees something Steve won't order. <<
That right there is the hellish drawback of negative teamwork experience. Once you're trained to do everything yourself because other people will not do it or will do it wrong, you won't tell people what you're doing for fear they'll get in the way. That works if your teammates are idiots. But if they're good people, then they'll be doing useful things of their own, and you'll screw each other up.
Phil spotted this quickly. It's why he kept trying different teamwork exercises until he found one that would stick. Just telling Tony "there is no I in team" doesn't work, because it won't erase all his past experience. It's necessary to give him new experience that working with these people is a functional process that produces better results than working alone. Tony needs coaching in how a healthy team works together. Since Steve already knows this, what they need most is a context where Tony will give it a fair try. And for him, the ageplay does that as effectively as it allows Natasha to explore love.
>> Of course, they were also away from Loki's staff when they were working together on the Helicarrier. <<
Yes, that helps. The staff has epic range but not all of that engages with everyone. The ambient field effect probably doesn't cover more than a city block or so, and there's falloff within that too. The range circles seem to go from taken, touch, near (room), and far (building or vessel). But the taken can be controlled at any distance, as the Chitauri did with Loki. Wherever the staff is, it warps emotions toward the volatile and negative; the closer people are, the bigger the skew. The farther away, it's a minor impairment of judgment that can still cause bad results.
Re: Thank you!
Also, Fury's mushroom farm had Steve ready to shear one conversation after another but it didn't (which I think was Fury's sole measure of effectiveness) affect his tactics.
That's where there is a big problem. Nick wants to acquire a resource (Captain America) and treats a person as a weapon. He manufactures a situation and then steps in to the rescue. (That's not the only read of the situation, I've leant to he's spinning lots of plates including getting WSC to show their true colors. Those stakes, I'm willing to give him a bit more rope. Maria is in that same boat without the meta. Of course, this puts both her and the viewer in 'danger' of following past the point of an illegal order.)
Steve misassessed Tony by a mile (Fury, what was in your briefing materials?); Tony will cut the wires, but he'll also get into position to do it, even if it means flying into a whale. Steve would not have ordered that. Tony knows he wouldn't so he just does it, against JARVIS's advice.
Re: Thank you!
That's probable. It's more blast radius than ground zero. I think the combat cooperation make it more feasible for Tony to start seeing Steve as a person, not just an emotional belt his father used to beat him with.
>> Also, Fury's mushroom farm had Steve ready to shear one conversation after another but it didn't (which I think was Fury's sole measure of effectiveness) affect his tactics. <<
I think it did affect Steve's leadership because it gave him a wrong read of Tony. That can be dangerous in combat, because you can't deploy people as effectively if you don't know how they'll really react. Steve didn't believe Bruce would rejoin the fight and was surprised that Tony's prediction of that came true. He was completely unprepared for Tony grabbing the nuke. Those things didn't cause a disaster but they easily could have. That's luck, not good planning on Fury's part.
>> That's where there is a big problem. Nick wants to acquire a resource (Captain America) and treats a person as a weapon. He manufactures a situation and then steps in to the rescue. <<
Yes, that fits my assessment. Fury treats Bruce more as a weapon or tool than a person, too.
>>(That's not the only read of the situation, I've leant to he's spinning lots of plates including getting WSC to show their true colors. Those stakes, I'm willing to give him a bit more rope.<<
I have read some good interpretations of Fury as a decent man in a ghastly situation without the leeway to avoid the problems that come up.
>> Maria is in that same boat without the meta. Of course, this puts both her and the viewer in 'danger' of following past the point of an illegal order.) <<
I give her credit for being the only person who tried to tell Fury that he was doing something wrong, that she knew he was bullshitting about the cards because Phil didn't carry them. She didn't have the rank to stop Fury from screwing people over, but she could at least register a protest. So that's why I write her as a favorable character.
>> Steve misassessed Tony by a mile (Fury, what was in your briefing materials?); <<
Part of the problem was Fury and Natasha buying into Tony's public persona. Part was Natalie Rushman dealing with Tony while he was dying -- not just that he was having end-of-life issues but that his entire biochemistry was haywire which does not lead to good decisions. The "textbook narcissism" line -- which Tony agreed with -- is what made me think they bought his line. Because if you look it up, Tony's behavior doesn't actually fit that. But Steve had no way of knowing what was baloney and what was real, until he saw Tony in action and Tony's deeds didn't match the file.
>> Tony will cut the wires, but he'll also get into position to do it, even if it means flying into a whale. <<
Yeah, his sense of self-preservation is whacked.
>> Steve would not have ordered that. Tony knows he wouldn't so he just does it, against JARVIS's advice. <<
It's true that Steve wouldn't have ordered it. I think JARVIS is coolly pissed at him for getting such a bad impression of Tony at first and for not taking better care of him in battle. Not enough to be malicious, but enough to stay reserved for quite a while after Steve moves in. Worse with Natasha. JARVIS will tolerate just about anyone on Tony's say-so, but he chooses his own friends and allies. JARVIS isn't as accepting as he was before Obie fucked them over.
storylistener
(Anonymous) 2013-10-28 05:22 pm (UTC)(link)Re: storylistener
Thank you!
>> I really like how you're showing Tony and Phil dealing with issues. <<
I've always had a thing for characters working through challenges, rather than handwaving them away. The situation between Phil and Tony requires delicate handling because of consent issues and Tony's damage. They're making good progress, though.
>> Small note, as of 10:21 pacific, 10/28, the link at the end of part 33 that says part 34, just routes you back to 33. <<
Fixed, thanks.
no subject
Ye-es, I appreciated Phil's recognition of that part of Tony's way of thinking.
Yay!
One thing I've tried to do in this series is match each character's speech and thoughts to their talents. So Steve uses artistic or military metaphors, while Tony uses computer or mechanical ones, and so forth. Phil has handler and psychological skills, so he understands the value of speaking to someone else's worldview, using their preferred metaphors. Some of the other Avengers have started doing that too, as they learn each other's favorite models. That makes communication much more effective.
Missing Part?
(Anonymous) 2013-10-29 05:47 am (UTC)(link)Re: Missing Part?
Thank you.
>> Just have a quick question- I read this chapter late last night and there was a section about a warm bath. That is gone now. Is it a glitch, or are you taking that part out? <<
Neither. I copied part of the next chapter, then when I realized that, went back and edited it out. It'll be back at the beginning of the next post, with more along those lines.
no subject
Alas!
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Re: Alas!
(Anonymous) 2013-11-07 03:02 am (UTC)(link)